146 | The Straight of Samus

Look out! A new Definitive Ranking approaches! That's right: Definitive Ranking makes its triumphant return as we rank the original Super Smash Bros lineup based on actual lethality. But first: How many people do you have to have in your secret society for it to actually be considered a secret society and not just a group of friends?

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Transcript

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Odyssey IMAX Afterglow

Eric 0:03

A friend date. A movie. An acclaimed director. The Odyssey. Your boys watch the Odyssey. We did it. Remember that's how the movie started with the guy banging the stick on the table. He's like, Yep, time, listen up. We need to go back to that. We need to go back to standing in the town square banging a stick and being like, an opinion. A hot take. Yeah, we did.

Matt 0:37

We went on a we went on a little date.

Eric 0:41

We saw Odyssey and IMAX. Well, you saw it. I experienced it. I apologize. We had a great time. Sorry, we won't spoil anything for anybody. So this is a spoiler-free podcast. But to talk about the story what we bring to you today is a discussion we had after seeing the Odyssey.

Matt 1:03

This will not turn into just discussing the Odyssey on an on yet another podcast.

Eric 1:08

No, no, no, no, no, no. Because I'll remind you all the the myth, the story that that Christopher Nolan's critically acclaimed film is based on. At the end of the Odyssey, you know, Odysseus comes home disguised as a beggar, and his wife is finally fed up. She's like, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna put all these suitors in my castle to a test, and whoever can string my husband's bow and shoot it through the hafts of these axes, uh, will take my hand, and then nobody can do it except the beggar can do it, and he does it, and he's like, It's me, Odysseus! Die, die, die, die, die, die.

Matt 1:47

Because Odysseus, of course, is the only one who was ever able to do this. It was a party trick, essentially.

Eric 1:52

Yes. Yes.

Matt 1:53

Uh look, I can do this thing, but like no one could string his bow. No one could fire this. Just so. And so, enter your boy Eric Poach. As we are walking out of the film Not into Odysseus's hall, I should say. He was not in the film. I should have been. We both should have been.

Eric 2:12

Yeah. As I'm walking out, I turn to Matt and I say, Hey, if you know, what would be your Odysseus test? If Lindsay, if Dr. Lindsay Arbar is your Penelope, what would be her test to the suitors to see if, you know, to and then like you, the beggar, come out and blah blah blah. What would that be? And Matt was like, This is prime podcast material. So now we're here.

Matt 2:35

So now we are here, and even more prime. I said to Poach this morning, I said, you know what? It is, after all, Penelope's ideas. So perhaps we should ask our Penelope. And we did. Eric, what did Alyssa have to say? Would be so the the situation is as follows. Yeah. Did you did you posit it to her as like the suitors thing, or just what would you do for someone to prove that they are you?

Eric 3:06

Uh a little a little bit of both, but it was framed in the context of like, all right, Odyssey, they're castle full of suitors, and and I'm basically a good one.

Matt 3:14

Because I basically was like, how would you prove it's me?

Eric 3:16

My very what's my very specific thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alyssa's first answer, and she said I could say that Alyssa's first answer was well, my gut, my my my knee-jerk answer isn't appropriate, so just look at the camera and waggle your eyebrows. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

Matt 3:34

All right, very fine.

Eric 3:37

Um I am but uh but the second answer, she kept coming like she my I love her so much. She came up with like one or two things, and I was like, oh, that's great, and then she just kept coming up with things. So I kind of put them all together. Okay, so the test of the suitors is they have to make Alyssa laugh harder than anyone else can, while getting her to leave the house when she's feeling bad and having a bad time and pulling her out of her out of her bad time headspace, while holding her dog like a baby without making her bark, while giving her a kith. Jesus Christ. So that's that's my that's my sordid deal. That's wow. I mean, truly throw off the hood, give me that dog.

Matt 4:35

It's a that's a test of truly. She I will say she went the very intimate, like lover root as well of like all these various these things, these challenges. Um, I think that's good. I think that's great. And I kind of posited it to Lindsay as uh like how would you prove it's me? Like somebody's saying they're me. How do you like, or just as good as I like this angle? Like, how do you prove it's me? Yeah. And proof of life feet. She's what she said was um, they would ask for my opinions of the government's involvement in the JFK assassination. And I said, I said, Oh, you uh as much as I'd like to flatter myself, you think you've paid close enough attention to my rantings and ramblings over the the these low these many years that you you would know what like my belief system truly is. You'd know what my takes are. What my takes are, and she she said, Oh, it's not so much what they say as how they say it.

Eric 5:47

Solid, solid. I I had a very firm believing. I was like, whatever Lindsay picks, it'll be very firmly uh opinion-based.

Matt 5:54

Yes, and she said, Any anything less than um unbridled enthusiasm. That's not matche.

Eric 6:05

Vengeful righteousness, but no longer directed at taking your palace wife and kid back. It's now directed purely at Lyndon B. Johnson.

Matt 6:15

Yes. Uh I like this. This isn't that kind of podcast. Uh this is not that kind of podcast. A conspiracy. Too many bullets. Two shooters, minimum. How could the bullet turn around? All inspector top down.

Eric 6:49

Patsy Umbrella Manica.

Intro

Matt 7:12

You didn't ask for this. Podcast. Oh, this bit's got miles. It's answering life's least pressing questions. My name is Matthew Shay.

Eric 7:24

My name is Eric Pochdissius. Eric's Poch Diceus.

Matt 7:28

Yes, yes. Why wouldn't you go like uh Ericus? Eric Pochulus. Poachulus. Poch pochopolis. Poch pochellus.

Eric 7:36

Pochithhebus. Pochells. Pochul. Johnny legs. Johnny legs. Oh man, yeah, gang. If you're if there is anything holding you back and we want to see the Odyssey, just remember John Leguizamo, Johnny Legs himself, is in it and giving a dynamite performance as always.

Matt 7:56

Literally every human in the film is top-notch. God damn. Anyway, can't say enough good things about it right now. Um, but Eric, we have an action-packed episode today. And I mean that quite literally. Oh, it's coming to blows. Because we are bringing back definitive ranking. It's been so long. I I have not actually looked as to just how long it's been, but like well over a year, I think, since we did one of these bad boys.

Eric 8:26

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Matt 8:27

So it's been it's been a Mississippi minute. It's been a Mississippi minute, and so we did ask for some like Well actually, well, okay.

Eric 8:34

Are we counting definitely ranked our our ranking of Donks short break?

Matt 8:40

Well, that was sort of our like it was our spin-off. We well, we were saying that was like our warm-up because that was like a mini definitive report.

Eric 8:47

This is good. Yeah, yes.

Matt 8:48

But uh, so yeah, I guess we're counting that. But before that, but our our our definitive truly, yes. Um so we're gonna bring that back, and by popular demand, no less, we uh we did kind of crowdsource the discord because quite frankly, there's a lot of discord going on there.

Eric 9:06

A lot of discord discourse.

Matt 9:08

If you will, discourse in the discord. And I will. You should join, and you would be able to talk to us.

Eric 9:16

Yes. Get to hang out in the orgy dome. Tell us what you bring in. That's all you get to know about it. That's all that's all we'll say.

Matt 9:22

Eric, we gotta get warm. We gotta stretch. We gotta, we gotta stretch our muscles out. We gotta do a couple laps.

Eric 9:30

Yeah, we gotta we're we're about to go on an Odyssey of sorts.

Matt 9:34

If you will Odyssey these questions, Odyssey these nuts. There it is.

Eric 9:40

There he is.

Matt 9:42

He's back, baby. He's back, he's back after a baby, baby. Hey, got to.

When do friends Become a Secret Society?

Matt 9:50

Aaron asks, how many people do you have to have in your secret society for it to be considered a secret society and not just a group of friends hanging out? Yep. Hanging out with the anyway, uh buds, just some dudes, a click, if you will. Yeah.

Eric 10:11

Yeah, because there is so like the the key here is secret society. Like, if it's a bunch of people hanging out in secret, that could just mean you know, someone in the friends group has to be left out of certain hangs. Like, that doesn't make it a secret society. That just means your friends don't like you. This it's the secret quality that really speaks to me. Yeah. Like there's certain, there's a way things are done. You know, you gotta and that's why for me the question, it really isn't there is a how many people aspect of it, but like there's no like it's not a quantity thing, it's a quality of a group of people. You don't need a group. I would say you need like like just to come off the bat, I'd say you need at least three.

Matt 10:59

Well, I don't think you have a group with two people. That's uh that's a coupling, yeah.

Eric 11:03

That's a duo. Yeah. And that's fine, that's valid. They could those can be secret and they can, but they're not a society. Actually, you know what? I'm changing my answer mid time. Three people is too little because that that's the second half of the equation. I have to respect it. Society. Society.

Matt 11:20

So that means like a secret a secret club, a secret organization is like five people, like a gang could be five people, I feel like.

Eric 11:29

Yeah, but a society a society implies like they have like branches. They have branches and they have a uh not that they're like around the globe, but that their power can extend globally.

Matt 11:43

Yeah, like for like uh like fraternities and such.

Eric 11:46

But like we're talking about like the the Freemasons and being able to order the death of a sitting president from across the planet while his while his you know car is driving.

Matt 11:59

We're talking about the the them group of people from one battle after another down in the basement. Like that's what we're discussing, where we can reference a member elsewhere and say, let's get our man in madras on this.

Eric 12:12

And and and I yes, let's get our man in madrass on this. So that means like they're to have the secret we're again focusing on the society real quick. Society. There are roles and like uh responsibilities within the society. They're there are there are moving parts here.

Matt 12:32

I'm gonna take, Eric, your original gut instinct of three people and say for a secret society to have graduated to secret society level, you have to have at least three branches. Three yes, three divisions of the you know, you need the Santa Monica, you need the Baltimore and you need the Saskatchewan Exactly.

Eric 12:59

Exactly.

Matt 13:00

That's what you need.

Eric 13:01

Um, I agree with that. I agree with that.

Matt 13:03

So now we need to know, so we have three, but that's our multiple. That's our multiplier. That that that's our society. We need to know, so we need base minimum how many people are in one of those divisions, Eric.

Eric 13:16

I would say more than nine, because nine is a fellowship. Anything after that, society.

Matt 13:22

Now, do you think at all that that is sort of your own biasy in in any way or bias? Yes, but it's correct.

Eric 13:31

Like two things can be true, Matt. I can be biased and my bias is correct. Is a fellowship an actual term of measurement? It's nine people.

Matt 13:41

But is that just from JRR Tolkien's?

Eric 13:44

I don't know if it's just from JR. Let's let's let's let's let's let's look up the definition of fellowship.

Matt 13:49

Is a the word fellowship does not represent a specific fixed number on its own, says the uh uh AI overview.

Eric 13:58

Oh, the AI overview.

Matt 14:00

And it I am the only reference I'm finding is the Lord of the Rings.

Eric 14:05

Well But Eric, I'm prepared to allow it. Yeah. I mean, we're in secret society territory. We're not really like, you know, not known for sticking to the straight and narrow of society's rules.

Matt 14:18

More than nine is a fellowship, as we know. Yeah, more than nine or not, yeah. Nine is that implies ten minimum. Ten minimum. So I would say let's talk roles of leadership because like that's the true minimum, I suppose. So there's some you know what? I don't know why this is striking me, but there's some sort of like for a secret society as opposed to a cult.

Eric 14:42

Yes.

Matt 14:43

I feel like there has to be not a figurehead, but some sort of council.

Eric 14:47

Yes, a council made up of representatives from each branch. And the high table.

Matt 14:53

So I would say the bare minimum for that council is three because the of a majority rule situation.

Eric 15:01

I I think what we're dancing around.

Matt 15:02

But three seems too small, does it not?

Eric 15:04

The three seems too small, but a three is a minimum, makes sense. Like basically, in order to be reach secret society status, you have to be able to control a tri-state area. Like that's three distinct locations, three sets of things, three heads at the table. That's the minimum for a secret society.

Matt 15:24

I'm gonna suggest five as the like governing body of a secret society. Yeah, yeah. We're talking absolute minimums. Okay. So that's so you know, so five people, that's three for a majority, yep. For voting purposes, uh, and that allows for uh the the more control of like what you're saying. Like, so it's not just like one person from uh you know one state, one person from another, etc. etc.

Eric 15:56

Mm-hmm. Um, I would also say that that it's key here for the that the secret society not proselytize. If you're a secret society, you definitely recruit, but you don't advertise.

Matt 16:06

No, you don't advertise, you recruit on a like one-on-one basis because it uh if you are recruiting, you're dangerously going into cult territory.

Eric 16:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll also say here, I need leaning back into secret. I need I need my shibboleths. Say again? Uh shibboleth is one of my favorite words. It is, uh I I got the the definition up here, but a shibboleth is any word, pronunciation, or custom that tells whether a person belongs to a specific group. Um, and you you, Matt, are possessed of a shibboleth. Uh uh, to use a non-secret society version of one, an example of a shibboleth would be if I walked into a party and I said, Oh, yeah, I grew up in Lancaster, what would you say? I would say not long enough to know it's pronounced Lancaster. Lancaster is the Shibboleth. Someone from there knows how it's pronounced, or like it's certain like there, and it can be like regional pronunciation.

Matt 17:10

That's a good test of Odysseus for me as well.

Eric 17:12

Oh, yeah. Where'd you grow up? Oh, yeah, you know I went, I went down there, Lancaster. That's where I grew up.

Matt 17:22

Don't be taking that fucking Baltimore accent upstairs to Pennsylvania. Come on.

Eric 17:26

Oh, come on now.

Matt 17:27

Yeah, we've we you know, you have to throw in some yins at the very least.

Eric 17:31

We'll drag you down here in the mud with us, yeah. Um, so yeah, I need like shibla, I need secret handshakes. I need I need like hauling.

Matt 17:42

Passwords. Passwords. You know, that sort of thing is what makes a secret society. And I think the 10 feels good because that would be five minimum of the like governing body and five individual members. Or does it feel like it needs to be even more? To open a branch, to open a branch. To open a branch, you need the demand, right? Yeah, okay. Wait a minute, hold on. We are this is gonna take some writing down the numbers now. Okay, because if we have because we said three minimum, remember? Yes. So to open a branch, three minimum figureheads. Yes, I think we could say that to open a new branch. So, but original branch, if you get to five, if that's the ideal state.

Eric 18:26

Okay, that's the ideal state.

Matt 18:28

That's the ideal state, and then you say, I think we're ready to expand, let's bring Vermont into it. We'll send up some representatives to Vermont. Yeah. And you know, so I think 10 is too small to start branching out in that regard. So if we say 20, that's that that's uh 20 actually feels like too much as like a base.

Eric 18:54

Because at that point, are you just a 501c3?

Matt 18:56

Yes, Eric. Ooh, good work. I'd say maybe it's six.

Eric 19:02

Is it six? Is it six? No, no, even numbers. Matt, let me hit you with this. Nine. Counter argument seven. Seven. Seven. Okay, yeah. Seven, seven has very like it has mythical vibes to it. It's got mystical. How about this?

Matt 19:22

It's giving mystic. Feel this out. Eleven. Eleven. Then you have the like even numbers of ten of like, oh, okay, we've got two people per the the five, the five. Oh, now I'm up to 15. See, this is why most secret societies on the ground. Seven. Are we including the five and the seven?

Eric 19:47

Yeah, I assumed.

Matt 19:48

Oh, okay. All right, then so then I'm good. Then I'm good. I think I'm good with uh no no no no. I feel like it has to be more. I'm gonna Eric, it's staring us in the face. What? It's 13.

Eric 20:00

Oh, 13. It's 13. So this is why it's not any sort of occult reason. They go with 13 in secret societies because that's just logistically.

Matt 20:10

That's just what you do. It's just what's done. That's just secret organization 101.

Eric 20:15

Yeah. And it requires at least three cars for everyone to go to somewhere. 100% it does. So, like, that that is also you, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if your entire society can fit in a fucking minivan, you're not a secret society. You're a ball.

Matt 20:29

I would say if you're opening a group three for the like figureheadable situation, yeah. And how many minimum to start as followers? We're we're just we're branching out. Remember, this is just starting.

Eric 20:47

I would say if the minimum is three. Minimum for the minimum for the council. For the council is three, but so so like minimum number of followers before it's a secret society? Is are we going to again?

Matt 21:00

We shouldn't say followers because that's culty.

Eric 21:02

Yeah.

Matt 21:03

Minimum other members. Acolytes.

Eric 21:05

Non-voting members. Non-voting. Okay, so going so we've got the we've got the president, treasurer, and the secretary that's covering that portion of fudiciary duty.

Matt 21:16

Maybe it's two, just two more additional people. So you start out with five. Yeah. Or would it just be the three and they start recruiting?

Eric 21:26

I would say the three in each of those three has three.

Matt 21:29

It's the well, what about what I'm thinking is like, okay, we're gonna send three representatives up to this place to start a branch. Yeah.

Eric 21:37

Those three open the the the the Matnuska branch.

Matt 21:42

Because it's two out of three for voting, but of the three, they're the only ones vote that we only need the three voting. You bring in a fourth, we're trying to get to five. So now we're voting amongst five people when we get to five, and now we have non voting members.

Eric 21:55

And now we have non voting members.

Matt 21:57

After that. So I think all we need is three. Yeah. So that means 19 people make a secret society.

Eric 22:03

Okay.

unknown 22:04

Yeah.

Matt 22:05

13 in the original colony.

Eric 22:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Seven for the dwarf lords in their halls of stone. Yeah.

Matt 22:13

So three and three. Six other people who we've sent out. Six pilgrims. Six pilgrims. Acolite. Six, six, six pledges. Sent out to other tri-state areas. Yep.

Eric 22:27

Get out of here. You're in. Now get the fuck out.

Matt 22:30

To triangulate the secret society.

Eric 22:32

Did we just invent MSMs?

Matt 22:35

We could have.

Eric 22:36

Did we just do multi-layer or sorry MLMs? Multi-layer marketing. Yes, I was going to crack. The long way around.

Matt 22:41

The long way.

Eric 22:43

The long way. Did we just Star Wars Episode 1 ourselves? Did we turn this into trade embargoes? Hey. Are we the Senate? Am I the Senate?

Matt 22:55

Everyone laughed until they had to learn what the Strait of Hormuz was. It doesn't seem so far-fetched now, does it? Eric,

Smash Bros Deathmatch Rules

Matt 23:08

are we ready to rank some things definitively?

Eric 23:10

Yes, I think we did it.

Matt 23:13

Today, what was chosen for us or suggested by the masses, it officially came out of the mouth of none other than Dairy King 11. From the mouth of Babes and Kings.

Eric 23:27

All hail. All hail.

Matt 23:29

And what was landed on is a Super Smash Brothers definitive ranking based on if it was an actual fight. To the death.

Eric 23:40

So we're essentially ranking each one on lethality.

Matt 23:44

Yes. And we are going to, for this, only going to be using the N64 original Linux cast.

Eric 23:55

And and and this this this discussion's going to be interesting on multiple levels. Because one, it is in a f because you gotta remember the conceit of Super Smash Bros. is that we're in a sort of like we're in a kid's bedroom. They're playing with their toys and like imagining these battles fighting out between characters. And then in the meta commentary of Nintendo as a whole, they do this a lot. The idea is like, oh, this is a friendly competition. Like we're we're just we're not no one's dying. You're just getting knocked off the stage and going to hell, I guess, for a little bit until you were. That's not how I play Super Smash Bros. No, you you play. That's not how anyone plays Super Smash Bros. This though.

Matt 24:36

But this is this is meant to be this is for the ultimate pink slip. That might be what you're they envisioned with Super Smash Brothers, but I'm telling you, and I hope you agree. When you were sitting over at a sleepover, playing some SSB on the old N60 Fee. Was it or was it not serious fucking business?

Eric 24:55

Oh, it was serious business. You can't the Ring of Honor. Yes. I I all all like you we we we we don't go into that ring as friends. And we don't certainly don't leave it. No, no, no. It is it has tried many a friendship.

Matt 25:12

Oh yes. And so uh we but this we are gonna we're saying lose the conceit. Who who's gonna be killing the most people over here?

Eric 25:22

So here's here's the thing, gang. We're ranking these on lethality and their their ability to kill others, and this is in an imagined fight to the dead, like a true Highlander style, there can be only one who comes out on top. So to that I pitch, some of these people might get ranked equally in terms of lethality. That that that's a distinct possibility. Yes. Um, if they do, we can go into a deeper discussion to figure out who wins in that in that face-off. Um, but I kind of want to open, Matt. We need to establish something right off the get. And this is why I did the character order in the order I did it in. Notice, Matt, that at the top of our list, the very first person we're discussing.

Matt 26:06

Well, hold on, hold on. Are are we is this leading into the the unit of measurement? Yes, it is. It is. Okay.

Eric 26:13

The very top of the list in order of characters we discussed today, I put Kirby.

Matt 26:17

Yes, you decided the order we're gonna go in.

Eric 26:20

You you said you've given it some real thought. I've given it some real gosh dang thought, Matthew, and here's why Kirby's first.

Matt 26:27

Okay.

Eric 26:28

Any discussion about a fight to the death where Kirby is involved is a foregone conclusion. It's an interesting thing you've said before we've even begun ranking. Because, Matt, here's the thing about Kirby, and and die hard Nintendo fans or Super Smash Bros. fans will know this. Going off of the lore, Kirby's technically immortal. And durability, and like basically in in in in uh what's the word I'm looking for? Um imperviousness that is just kind of off completely off the scale. In it like he's I um and this is mind you, there's an entire subreddit just dedicated to Kirby lore because it goes deep, but like the big hitter things is Kirby is believed to be a young star warrior, an ancient race of protectors who defend the universe from darkness. Um, his exact orient origins remain mysterious. There's there's hints at him being tied to the cosmic forces of creation. Kirby is low-key implied to be an immortal god. So I say all of that, so I say this. I don't think we can actually consider Kirby in this contest. What I propose is that our unit of scale for measuring lethality is God King Kirby's out of 10. God King Kirby's? Kirby is effectively unkillable. Like he and he's any shit can tap into the city. But in Eric, you're bringing up deep lore. Universal. Well, I mean, that's what we're that's where we're at.

Matt 28:17

That's where we're at. I I have to push back. I don't think that's where you consider the lore. I don't think you do. I think we can consider if these are characters that are fighting and and we're talking about moves and such. Yeah. Who is the most leakable? Kirby's got a real good move. He can't die. So says you, honestly. And I'm sure you can pull up the Reddit and all the good. But what I'm saying to you is I know for a fact I've hit that little bubble boy into the fucking stratosphere many a time in a super smash within the context of a of a friendly battle between between the. I think we can allow Kirby into the thing that we haven't even begun yet, by the way, before you want to fucking crown a victor. I will I'm saying just he's not immortal for the sake of this conversation.

Eric 29:06

I here's here's here's what'll make this And your Reddit lore is not to be believed for. I just wanted to respect the lore, but what I will what I will accept, Kirby being, you know, a god king, can I I would think, in theory, render himself down to the level of mere mortals, and we can we he can for the purposes of this competition. Oh, you think he'll consent? He'll agree. He'll consent to be killed, he'll sacrifice of himself to himself, fulfill the prophecy. It's all there in the lore, Matt. I've never wanted to punch you more. Okay. Hey, okay. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just spreading the good news.

Matt 29:47

So if we're not using the God King Kirby scale, um so all that to say, um, if we're not using the God King Kirby scale, the AI overview says no, Kirby is not officially immortal, while Deep Lore describes him as a cosmic powerhouse with near infinite potential, multiversal strength, and survival feats against black holes and planet explosion. He's a fucking bubble. He can still be defeated or lose life in gameplay. He is canonically depicted as a young individual, a baby or a child, rather than an ageless or inter eternal deity. And that is coming from Reddit's, is where it's pulling that from.

Eric 30:29

Um, so okay, so well here's my rebuttal. AI OT of Review. President John F. Kennedy was assassinated on November 22nd, 1963, at 12:30 p.m. in Dallas, Texas. He was shot twice while riding in an open top motorcade through Dealy Plaza and pronounced dead at Parkland Memorial Hospital, 1 p.m. Uh Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, and President Kennedy was hit in the neck and head. That's how he died. So, you know, here we are.

Matt 31:01

The AI overview did provide you the official story.

Eric 31:04

That's true. And as did for you, visa v. Kirby. Kirby's my JFK, Matt. Well, we all have our passions. Now he's willing to be mortal for this contest. So what is our scale?

Matt 31:18

If not God King Kirby's, which was what you brought to the table.

Eric 31:22

Yeah. You mean if we if we set that dish aside? If we if we set the truth down for a moment and we suspend our disbelief and we enter this. I'm here to play.

Matt 31:33

It's gotta be like maybe one, maybe one of the uh maybe one of the items, like a um like one of the uh ten out of ten home run bats. I was gonna actually pull out home run bats. Yeah. Do we want to let's say home run bats? Let's say home run bats. Why not? It came to us like a god dream. Came to us like a god dream. Speaking of which, I think it's okay. So our home run bats is gonna be our scale. One to ten, yes? Yes. And so we are gonna be talking about these people, assuming they all can be killed and what their powers are in game. Yes? Yes. We agree. Yes. We agree, we can proceed.

Eric 32:10

We agree.

Matt 32:11

Then I do say, Eric, we should welcome our first. You still want to go in the top? Oh yeah, we'll still go in the same order. Oh, so we'll go in the same order? Then welcome to the pitch.

Eric 32:22

Kirby! Yes! Oh, you give me such gifts. Kirby! Yeah, that doesn't sound like someone announcing a fucking god. Kirby. Um, so Kirby Kirby and Yes. So Kirby. So Kirby's bringing a lot to the table. He's he he has amazing recovery. He does his little floaty balloon thing. It's true. So and like again, we're fighting to the death. We got we have to remind ourselves that the goal isn't knock them off the stage anymore. That's not killing them.

Matt 33:04

The goal, the goal is kill.

Eric 33:06

See their life's blood upon the final destination.

Matt 33:10

And so just the to get the real base ones out of the way for Kirby, he can inhale and copy power.

Eric 33:17

Which is huge. So anyone he's fighting, he can use their own techniques against them. Huge, inarguably huge.

Matt 33:24

Final cutter is his up B move. Yep. And he's got stone, which is down, down B, he turns into stone.

Eric 33:32

Just a classic, like just killing someone with physics. Truly. Kinetic energy rock.

Matt 33:38

Kirby is uh well, whether he's killable or not in the deep lore, he is extremely lethal.

Eric 33:45

Offensively, he's he's he's powerful.

Matt 33:48

Because he can take the best qualities of any of the components. Yeah. Uh or any of the opponents and and just use them against them. Yes. Oh, you've got a gun, so do I. Oh, you got a sword, so do I. You can Falco Punch, so can I. Oh, so can I.

Eric 34:06

Like it's I I would I would put I would put Kirby in terms of of lethality. And and in turn, I'm I have to measure this on two sort of axes in my mind. There's how much they can dish out, but then we have to consider how much they can take. Yes. Um, in terms of like who's coming out on top of this. So Kirby, I think, like, in my mind, like in terms of offense, is like a 10. Kirby's a 10 in terms of uh offense. Of raw power. Defense, Kirby can get knocked around pretty easily. Yes. But Kirby also does have the sort of two for one sort of ability. He can become a giant rock, which not only does a bunch of damage, but makes you impervious to damage for a set amount of time. He's one of the few that has that like straight up. I think he's the only one in the OG cast that has a straight up, I am immortal for a couple of seconds.

Matt 35:02

Uh yeah, I maybe so. I believe I thought you were gonna say like a downward punch. I was like, that's definitely not true. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Eric 35:10

But in terms of like I can just turn off all incoming harm for a few seconds, I think he's the only one who can do that.

Matt 35:16

Yes, but if you time it wrong, you you kill yourself right off the edge of the platform if you if you rock in the wrong place. But he, I will say one thing about him is like while he can do like a dash left or right really quick, he's pretty slow. Otherwise, he's pretty slow.

Eric 35:33

He's slow, but he's floaty. Got a lot of recovery, but still a lot of recovery.

Matt 35:38

He's got a great recovery move, but in terms of agility, pretty lacking.

Eric 35:43

Pretty lacking. I would put his defensive capabilities. Like, if he didn't have the rock, he'd pretty much have nothing. So I would I would put him defensive capabilities.

Matt 35:51

Because I think we can't keep we can't count the bubble shield for anyone, I don't think.

Eric 35:55

No, no, those are off. Bubble shields are off. No, the the gone. Yeah, there this is this is, and that's why like I even think like in terms of like getting knocked off the stage, that doesn't matter. That's not killing them. We're talking but but until the until their pulse stops. We're not looking at percentage. We're looking at I think it's a I think I feel like it's a seven.

Matt 36:14

Uh like Kirby overall. I would say his overall defensive capabilities are like a seven. I was gonna put it as six.

Eric 36:22

So like I so I so I agree with that on so I would say like average I would say Kirby overall, solid eight.

Matt 36:30

I was gonna say eight, maybe even eight and a half home run bats. Eight point five home run bats, I'd take that. I'm good with an eight point five home run bats on the table. I'll tell you that right now. I'll call it for you to for to you for free. Yeah. Alright, should we move on?

Eric 36:46

We should. The man, the myth, the plumber. Mario! Mario. Mario. Mario Mario. Mario Mario, brother of Luigi Mario. We'll get to him shortly. But Mario. So You want to give us his moves? Uh Mario in standard smash, he can throw fire flowers with a B. He's got his down spinny boo move. He's got his up uh punch, and he can he can notably when he grabs you, he swings you around like King Koopa and tosses you.

Matt 37:21

Yes, the super cape.

Eric 37:23

Yes.

Matt 37:24

Yes.

Eric 37:24

Um, so here's my thing. Offensively, the best thing he's got is the fireflower in terms of lethality. Everything else is uh is an Italian man just punching you. Which uh hey, is not to be besmirched. Not to be besmirched, but like in terms of it's not nothing who you're gonna kill in this roster, I think with straight punches, mm the other Italian plumber is your most likely victim. Like everyone else has got a lot going for them.

Matt 37:56

Yes. I largely have always held the belief that Mario is a pretty shit character in this game.

Eric 38:03

Yes, I I think offensively and defensively, Italian is his stat.

Matt 38:08

I would say offensively, he gets a six. Yeah. But he's more like a five overall for me.

Eric 38:18

Yeah, that no, he in true Mario fashion, he's the five, he is the middle of the road.

Matt 38:23

He's the middle of the road. And I'm I'm fine with cutting right to five on him. Yeah, cut right to five. And cut to the superior brother, I'd say.

Eric 38:32

Oh, cut to Luigi. It never gets old. Luigi. Luigi. When I was when I was younger and foolish, yes, I when I heard that voice. Luigi. Yeah, when you hear that, yeah, when I was a child with a child's mind, I thought I was like, oh, you know, he says because they can't imagine Luigi doing anything. So he's like, oh, Luigi. Oh, yeah. But as I've gotten older, it really is, it's like watching, like, oh, coming up now, it's like someone has stepped up there, oh holy shit, they woke up Luigi. Luigi. They woke up Luigi for this.

Matt 39:13

He has similar powers to Mario. He's got green fireballs. Got green fireballs. But he has the super jump up just like him, but it comes with a sweet spot knockout. Yes.

Eric 39:24

And and that is carried, and I and I'm not gonna bring it into the discussion now, but it's worth noting that it's that theme of him having a sweet spot move has carried through the entire series. In later installments, he's got like the he does his little kick thing. It's like he's just barely like kicking up dust on the ground, but if it hits you, it hits you like a home run bat.

Matt 39:44

He also has his side B move, which is called Chaotic Misdirection slash green missile, where he launches himself like a goddamn rocket. Yeah, chaotic misdirection is so fucking awesome.

Eric 39:59

I think so. Luigi in this rank up of these 12 characters, Luigi is truly the wild card. Yes. Because I think he's the kind of fighter who's gonna get the absolute piss beat out of him. But then in the like the bottom of the ninth at the 11th hour, yeah, he just does so and just utterly fucks. Like, I think I think it's like if you're gonna if on on the journey to fight Luigi, dig two graves. He yeah, he you can beat everyone.

Matt 40:30

Can absolutely beat the shit out of Luigi.

Eric 40:33

But Luigi There's no question that he he he he will die.

Matt 40:36

His superpower, truly, is his ability to give a wipe to his mouth, spit out a tooth, and say, I didn't hear no bell. I didn't hear no fucking bell. And he just gets right back into the mix with his chaotic misdirection. Yeah. So for that I've gotten I've gotten Luigi up to 200% damage easy before. Easy. Way if not way past that mark.

Eric 41:03

He just launches himself right back. He fights with zero sense of self-preservation, I feel. Like he wants, and to be clear, he wants to not die, but like the way he's fighting, like Luigi, you're gonna die. And and and I think he knows that, but so are you.

Matt 41:21

He has been the younger brother for low these many years. The the is not Luigi truly the younger siblings talisman.

Eric 41:33

Is he not the Jan of a two siblings setup? Like he somehow manages to be Jan. He somehow is Jan. And what do we say on this podcast, Matt? We say yes, Jan.

Matt 41:46

And so I say yes, Luigi. I say free Luigi.

Eric 41:50

I say easily 5.5.

Matt 41:52

I say you say 5.5 really? 5.5. You really only think 5.5? He's still Luigi. I I I have to insist at minimum we give him a six.

Eric 42:03

Okay. I say six. And you know what? For for no other reason than it's one more than Mario. And that's that's what our boy deserves.

Matt 42:09

That's what he he that is what he deserves if based on height alone.

Eric 42:14

Yeah, yes. My God, yes. Now Donkey Kong! Now we come to Donkey Kong has entered the arena. Has his own walk-in music, the DK rap. Yeah.

unknown 42:26

You're right.

Eric 42:27

He like only character to come with his own fucking walk-in music. He does have his own walk-in music. And he does have the power of being a fucking gorilla. Wait, and and DK's a gorilla, right? Am I am I pretty sure I'm asking this? No, uh, he's got to be. Because he's based on King Kong. He's gotta be. He's a gorilla. He's a gorilla. Which is wild because his sibling well, actually, no, I don't think I don't think uh I don't think his little, you know, his little little little ape pat Diddy, there we go. Um I don't think I think yeah, no, not in this game. Not in this game. No Diddy Kong in this game. So we're looking at we gotta talk about the 500-pound gorilla in the room. Truly we do. That's what we're here for. Let me see, let me see how much does DK weigh? They have these stats. Of course they do. 229 pounds. 229. Kind of light for a gorilla. But he's uh that's a thing. He's also kind of like he's low-key agile for a gorilla. He is. He he's gotta be able to keep up with the rest of them. He and his weapons, what he's got in the offense, very simple. Gorilla fists. He giant punch. Punch, punch, pick up, throw. Like he truly going ape shit on him. He headbuts. He headbuts. And I think that like he buries people into the ground. Yes, he literally put like, yeah, like puts them. He his strength is off the charts.

Matt 43:56

And he's got an upspin move. I love an upspin. We're gonna get to that. In a second. And we love a little chargy punch. Oh, you're right. He can do a chargy punch. And it's fun too, because it spins around.

Eric 44:09

Oh, yeah. And then you got like, oh, I got this in the back pocket. Bam.

Matt 44:14

Yeah, I think he just by nature of his pure physicality is uh is in the upper reaches.

Eric 44:22

I think he's in the upper reaches. I I think he is slower. He is slower. And he's a giant target. Or his big target. Durable. He can he can take punishment. He can. He's a meat shield. He is a meat shield and he hits hard. It's one of those things where, like, this is this okay, so this is the thing, right? If you're going for knockouts, his his lack of speed is is a big disadvantage. You know, people are like, ah, I'm gonna knock you out. But if you're going for the kill, eventually you gotta close distance. Eventually, you have to get within reach from them big old donkey bats. To face him eventually. And I think once he gets a hold of you.

Matt 45:01

Because we're not talking, we're despite the the uh the measurement being home run bats, we are not bringing the other items into this. This is truly one-on-one.

Eric 45:11

We're putting you in a gray box until someone walks out alive.

Matt 45:15

Yeah, there's no environmental bonuses, there's no there's no uh prop bonuses.

Eric 45:21

Honest to God, yeah. I think that's the way we should be seeing it. Like there's no falling off the big thing. I think that's what we've done so far. Good, good. In that case, I think Donkey Kong is like a nine.

Matt 45:31

Yeah, it's hard to argue with it.

Eric 45:33

It's a fucking 230 pound gorilla. I can't give him a 10. I can't give him a 10. Can't give him a 10.

Matt 45:38

I can I can get behind a nine. I can get behind a nine. I can get behind a nine as a uh in pure lethality. Yeah. Uh yeah, I think that's good. You want to move on to Yoshi!

Eric 45:49

Yoshi. So here's the thing. Okay. Go ahead, lay it down for me. I like Yoshi. Oh boy. I love Yoshi. Okay. But Yoshi strikes me in the context of fight to the death. I think Yoshi might be one of the lowest scorers here. I don't think Yoshi has it in them to kill somebody.

Matt 46:14

Okay. That's a valid point. That's a valid point. Let's talk a little bit about his powers. Yep. He can uh lay an egg, which can then be an egg, used as a weapon, but also he can swallow and lay the enemy as an egg.

Eric 46:32

Yes.

Matt 46:33

Which we're not doing environmental bonuses, but it has to be said is a very powerful thing on the edge of a platform. Because you can poop them right out off of the edge.

Eric 46:42

It's a great tool if you're doing a friendly bout of let's knock each other off the stage. But we're here in let's kill each other, Vil. Like I put you in an egg. Okay, I'm just gonna break out.

Matt 46:53

He can do the egg toss up to recover.

Eric 46:55

And and Kirby has like an interdimensional portal in his tummy. Yoshi's just got like swallowing is actually a disadvantage here, I'd say.

Matt 47:04

If you let me know, he can Yoshi bomb. He does have the Yoshi bomb in it. He throw egg, he throw egg, he swallows you, which by by jumping to what happens, you skip over the fact that he's got reach. He can send that tongue out and grab you.

Eric 47:21

But the reach, like, the the tongue isn't doing any damage. You can bring me to I I want to be no, but you break up moves. You can break up moves, you can throw someone off their rhythm, but like, man, when I think in terms of like not wanting to die, swallowing the opponent and passing them through my internal organs where they just have opportunities galore to just go nuts in there, start speed bagging my fucking kidneys until I die. Like, you know what I mean? Like Kirby has the advantage, like he swallows you, it's just a void in there. We've discussed this. It's just a fucking void. There's nothing to punch. Yoshi, you swallow me, dog. I'm gonna I'm just gonna start, I'm just gonna start messing with you.

Matt 48:02

You end up inside Yoshi, which we have talked about. You're gonna be in your kitchen all night long. We have talked about it before, Yoshi's uh what it's like inside Yoshi. But like if you're gonna end up in the the sunken place that is Yoshi's Tumtum.

Eric 48:20

I'm gonna start it it's a rage room. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm uh I so I I I just don't think Yoshi Yoshi is a character. You're right. I don't think he has by not like like by the killer instinct by having a lot of utility, the utility is off the charts, but there's no kill the first anytime you take damage riding, Yoshi just runs away. I think Yoshi's like like like a three.

Matt 48:49

Yeah, I think you could be right about that. But Alyssa's gonna be devastated because Yoshi's her fucking favorite.

Eric 48:54

Well, but I think she'd also be honored that Yoshi wouldn't kill anybody, and that's why Yoshi will die.

Matt 49:00

Well, if we're saying he can't kill anybody, if he doesn't have it in him, doesn't three feel high?

Eric 49:05

Yeah, I think dare I say the three the three was out of kindness.

Matt 49:10

Okay, unwilling to kill anybody, it's a zero. But he's forced to. So one. I think his I think his powers get him a two. A two? I'd I would I would I would I would say two. I could see him accidentally killing someone quite well. But the guilt. The guilt will give him a Catholic guilt alone of Yoshi.

Eric 49:30

Oh yeah. Yoshi, known Roman Catholic, Yoshi.

Matt 49:33

Known Roman Catholic.

Eric 49:35

Uh yeah. Moving on. Confirmation name is like Thomas. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. No continues. The confirmation names, Thomas. Are you sure it isn't? All right. Now we're entering the the we're entering the realm of people who know how to play this game. Yeah. Yes. Link, link. So Link is a heavy.

Matt 50:00

Full disclosure. Full disclosure. I always try to play as Link.

Eric 50:04

Oh, Link mains. In first Smash Brothers, Link mains all day.

Matt 50:08

I I love a Link in any incarnation. Link's except Wind Waker, but that's a different story.

Eric 50:15

We're gonna have words, little gal. We'll get to it later. Um I mean, he's bringing it all. He brings it all, he always does. He has range with a bone arrow. He has he has utility with a grappling hook.

Matt 50:27

Uh let's not forget the boomerang. He's got a range as well.

Eric 50:30

He's got a fucking sword.

Matt 50:32

He's got the sword of time.

Eric 50:35

He's got the well, the master sword.

Matt 50:36

The master sword.

Eric 50:38

My friend.

Matt 50:39

The master sword. You're you're correct. I believe it isn't.

Eric 50:42

He has a shield. He's the only he's the only person on the cast who brought armor. He has a shield and he has a fucking sword. He is equipped for a fight to the death. Oh, he quite quite historically in the games has demonstrated he has no problem killing.

Matt 51:00

He will kill. Does he have in the first Smash Brothers, does he have hookshot as well? I think he does.

Eric 51:08

Yes, he does. That's what I mean. Yes, he has the hookshot, not that is his his his his little grapply hook spring loaded chain thing. Uh the coolest item in all of Zelda.

Matt 51:20

As opposed to the long shot, which is pink. This one is blue, so that's the long shot. I mean, that's the hookshot. Um, yes. So I am ashamed, actually. I'm still wallowing in the shame that I I called it the sword of time in the master sword.

Eric 51:34

Okay.

Matt 51:34

It's a I am.

Eric 51:35

He is the hero of time. I am aware playing. Well, I don't know if you know that in Ocarina of Time, the the one that, you know, this version of he plays the song of time. I made a little mistake. In the temple of time. Made one little mistake. I've had a child. Uh you have had a child. I'm sleep deprived. And in time, I'm sure he will forgive you for your sins.

Matt 51:57

Eric, earlier in this episode, I said I had never wanted to punch you more. That is no longer accurate. We're on the board, baby. Yeah, we are buddy. You've said a PR twice in this episode.

Eric 52:11

I all this to say. Yes. Oh, and this version of Link literally has like, I mean, if we're counting outside of the route, he's fast. He has the ocarina of time upon him. He can literally rewind time.

Matt 52:24

He can double jump, hook shot to grapple onto things to br not only bring people to him, but he can bring himself places. He has bombs. He has bombs. Like I his up spin is unparalleled. His upsword spin, which can be charged. He can also charge his sword, just standing for a standing sword attack.

Eric 52:48

Yes. He's so So what are his flaws? He's fucking up. What are his flaw flaws? I mean, like fucking, aside from the shield, he is compl he is just a human. He is an elf. Sorry, Hylian, but he is an elf. He's very agile. He's very agile. He he is I think he's he is like high I and he has a fucking shield. Like like the like he's the only he brought the sword to the death fight. It's true. I I think really his only struggle is like sustained directly. He can't take many shots before like he like like if you get past his shield, he he's just a person.

Matt 53:32

Well, he can't ex- Well, yeah, you're right in the sense that he can't exist with high damage for very long if he gets hit hit again, as opposed to Donkey Kong, who you can really get past that sword and shield, but you gotta you also gotta catch up to him.

Eric 53:50

Yeah, he's quick.

Matt 53:51

He's quick.

Eric 53:52

He's got oh man. I like he he's pretty much bringing it all. I I like I he's got range, he's got a fucking sword. He he's he's got combat experience.

Matt 54:06

He has killed, he will kill again. I'm very open. Link is my favorite. He always is. I am gonna throw out my opinion. You tell me if it's biased.

Eric 54:15

Okay.

Matt 54:15

9.5.

Eric 54:17

Matthew, I agree with this. You agree with it? I agree, I hard agree with this.

Matt 54:21

Well, good. Then it's a 9.5.

Eric 54:23

I would say the 0.5 is only taken off because he's armed, he has all these gadget stuff, but he doesn't at no point do they elevate beyond like medieval level technology. And he is he's he's uh I think probably a featherweight uh in class. I would I would put him in a featherweight.

Matt 54:38

He's he he can be knocked around. If you can fucking catch up to him, slash get on the wrong side of the master sword. Yes. Which I've always said in this episode. I've heard you say it tens of times. Pikachu! It's kind of cut off both sides of the clip. Pikachu! Pikachu. I tried to help it.

Eric 55:02

Sounds like he's in trouble. Pikachu sounds like he's in trouble.

Matt 55:05

Pikachu! It does sound like he's in trouble.

Eric 55:08

Hit it one more time. Pikachu! Get your ass down here. Like, that's the vibe I'm getting from it.

Matt 55:14

Oh, I just threw it away by mistake. Oops. Oh no. Bye, Pikachu.

Eric 55:17

Uh so Pikachu is interesting. Thunder jolt. Thunder jolt is his main thing. Uh has the power of electricity, which is famously quite lethal to most organic life force. He can summon down lightning as his down mode. So if if Link's a featherweight, Pikachu's the bantam weight.

Matt 55:39

He is the Yeah, he he can do the quick teleport agility.

Eric 55:43

Yes. So probably the fastest character on the roster of the OG game.

Matt 55:48

But if he I think that's true. If he does the quick teleport, he is then rendered useless. Yes, he's just in a he expends all energy on the quick teleport.

Eric 55:59

Yeah. Kind of pours it all in there till he hits the ground again. Um Pikachu has insane damage output. And this is, I believe, and can take it. And can take and can take high damage. But I yo I think Pikachu suffers from the Yoshi problem. Where Pikachu Ash's chosen Pokemon is a good good boy. Like, like, I don't think it Pokemon have demonstrated throughout the lore of their show of the game that they don't kill things. Well they they'll beat the shit out of them. They will they will literally they'll hit you until you faint.

Matt 56:44

And then he say, I think he's had enough. I th uh yes.

Eric 56:48

I think Pikachu hesitates.

Matt 56:51

Famously, Raichu is meaner than Pikachu.

Eric 56:55

Yeah.

Matt 56:56

By by country biology.

Eric 57:00

Yeah. They're Raichu are are are hateful, hateful creatures.

Matt 57:05

So if there were a Raichu, he'd be above Pikachu, I think. But there ain't no Raichu in this room. I think that informs how we how we can rank him a little bit. Yeah. If uh you related him to Kirby. Or no, you related him to Yoshi. In that he can't uh uh he he won't do it. But I don't think he's used to fighting on command.

Eric 57:27

This is true. Oh, so he doesn't and without are you saying like without a uh or are you saying that Pikachu has the advantage of like Pikachu is battle trained?

Matt 57:38

He's battle trained and he's used to compartmentalizing himself in such a fashion that he can say, this isn't me out here. This is Ash's Pikachu out here.

Eric 57:51

I agree with this. This is the fighting Pikachu. This is the fighting Pikachu, but what I what I will say, I'll yes, I'll I'll yes, but this. Yes, I think Pikachu will go the distance, we'll we'll dish out the pain no problem. But when it comes and I think Pikachu is not as big of a weenie as Yoshi when it comes to killing, but I do think Pikachu will hesitate. I think Pikachu will make the decision, like uh Pikachu will like look in the mirror and be like, Pikachu, Pikachu, Pikachu. But like they're gonna Pikachu's gonna have that standing on the edge of the abyss moment, and I think that that will be their weakness. They will hesitate to kill. They'll they'll end up doing it, but they'll hesitate. I think that's some points off. I think it might be I would put Pikachu at an eight. Oh, really? I would put Pikachu at a solid eight.

Matt 58:46

I was gonna because I was looking at Mario, who we put at a five, and like middle of the road, and his powers to Mario's powers. There's no question Pikachu is stronger. Yeah. I think it's gotta be a 7.5. 7.5? 8. If we're saying he ultimately doesn't have the individual will, it feels hard to give him an above a seat.

Eric 59:07

I I I can see that. I can see I can see that, and I concede that. So 7.5 it is.

Matt 59:13

7.5. Let's talk about our other Pokemon on the board.

Eric 59:16

Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff will knife a bitch. Oh, you feel strongly. I think Jigglypuff will have less hesitation over killing than Pikachu. I do think she is a bit psychotic. She's a bit psychotic. She will take a Louisville slugger to both headlights and slash her name. And laugh while she does it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt 59:37

Give me a little bit.

Eric 59:38

She'll carve her name into your leather seats. Do you want you want to give me her moves? Uh Jigglypuff, the biggest one, the bill let's give this a Jigglypuff sing. Zero offensive capability. You are completely vulnerable while you do it, but if you hit them with it, your opponent is unconscious.

Matt 59:59

Yep, put to sleep.

Eric 1:00:01

And that is huge. Because then Jigglypuff will do something, like will go for the kill.

Matt 1:00:07

She has the uh characterized here, the high risk, high reward knockout move of rest.

Eric 1:00:14

The down B. Her rest. So this is the true she goes the fuck to sleep. But if her the center of her model is touching the center of your model when she does it, it does massive amounts of damage. I used to play a lot of Jigglypuff. I'm a big fan of the sleep 'em, then restem combo. You gotta you fucking if they sleeping on you, tuck them in. Nice, Eric. So Jigglypuff gets massive points for me for a murderous intent, and B some lethal move she's got in her in her in her in her in her quiver.

Matt 1:00:49

Like uh uh our friend Kirby, she is slow. She's slow, she's very floaty. She has no interdimensional king beings inside of her.

Eric 1:00:59

No. And but that that singing move does make her hard to kill. You got you gotta get close to get the kill, and she is just gonna.

Matt 1:01:09

But we've already discussed multiple people who have ranged weapons, and we got more to come. Very good, Eric. Very good.

Eric 1:01:26

So I agree with you on the range in the way. I think so it's Jiddlypuff's gotta get very close, and that's not good for her because she's very soft.

Matt 1:01:35

She's very soft, she's very soft, but she does not lack the killer.

Eric 1:01:39

There's a strength and softness, but she has not lacked the killing she will kill again. She, God willing, she will kill again. I I god willing. God willing.

Matt 1:01:49

I I think this, Eric. Is this our eight? I think this is your eight because she is like Link, I will say. She's a high risk, high reward character. I don't classify Jigglypuff as a heavy hitter when you're playing the game, because if you don't know how to play Jigglypuff, you ain't hitting she's awful. She's fucking trash until you have to put your 10,000 hours in to be Jigglypuff.

Eric 1:02:16

Until they introduce the neutral B moves of her doing her rollout, which is one of my favorite moves in Smash, but that's not here. She don't have that. She's an eight. She's a Johto 10, but she's a she's a deathmatch eight. I like it, Eric. I like it. Fox. Fuck. Um Fox McLeod. Yeah, baby. The titular Star Fox. The titular Star Fox has has the the R Wing. Uh, the essentially has access to a fucking starship and a team. He has he is he is a member of his team. That's true. We're now entering a new sort of tier of of armaments.

Matt 1:03:06

Let's let's state it right up front. His main move, he's got a gun. He's got a fucking gun. He's got a blaster on him. He can turn himself into fire. He can turn oh yeah. He can launch himself at you.

Eric 1:03:20

Martial arts prowess. Like he oh, and sorry. Oh, yeah, he has the deflector shield, which works against projectiles, but not physical attacks.

Matt 1:03:30

He also has an agility move. He can he has the like yeah, exactly. He like zip zip zop zips across the room. Was that a move in OG Smash or was that only Fox Illusion is what it's called. I think so.

Eric 1:03:44

Okay, okay. So Fox has a gun, has a crew that will will come to you.

Matt 1:03:52

And summon his buddies. Yeah. Because Falco is not in the Falco is not in the middle. Oh, Falco ain't in this one, yo? Falco ain't in this one yet.

Eric 1:04:02

Oh yo, Slippy was my dog though.

Matt 1:04:04

Fuck Slippy. Fuck Slippy. Fuck Slippy. Nobody likes it. Are you are you are you being for real right now?

Eric 1:04:12

You like Slippy? I like Slippy and that Slippy exists to make Fox look even cooler. Okay. No. Okay, sure. So but but Falco Lombardi is my boy.

Matt 1:04:26

Yeah. Oh yeah, but he ain't here. He ain't here. He's only coming in as a cameo.

Eric 1:04:30

Yeah. Uh so I I'd say Fox is pretty fucking up there. I Fox is great. He's quick. He's le he's got a fucking gun. He brought he's one of very few people who brought a gun. He's small.

Matt 1:04:45

He's small, hard to catch. He in many ways he has link-like qualities. Yes. I think he's in the featherweight class.

Eric 1:04:54

Yes. He again, he's a veteran of many campaigns across the galaxy. Yeah. He is he is killed. Oh, he's he is battle hardened. He's killed thousands. He is he is laid waste to planets. Absolutely, he has. Uh, so I I think he's pretty high up there, Doctor.

Matt 1:05:14

I think he's pretty high up there. His I think his uh weaknesses.

Eric 1:05:18

Oh, he's also a cyborg.

Matt 1:05:20

He he can have little he uh he has some powerful things like the the because his gun is pretty low damage.

Eric 1:05:30

Yes, it is a pea shooter.

Matt 1:05:33

It it has been nerfed, as it will. Yes. His I'd say his real strength is that fire launch is like fire launch is where you do a lot of damage. Just one on one hitting, he's very good combatant wise. But if you're going up against Link fist to fist, Link's fist has a fucking sword in it.

Eric 1:05:52

Yes. If you're going up to DK fist to fist, DK's fist is attached to a 230 pound gorilla. His fist is the size of. Like I'm imagining DK catching him and doing the Hulk Loki smash, smash, smash, smash. And for that if he gets a hold of you, it's all over.

Matt 1:06:09

I think I am I'm sort of mentally bouncing between a 8.5 and a 9. I would put him at a 9.

Eric 1:06:16

I would put him at a 9 because his offensive capable capabilities are that fucking good. They are good. He has the agility to like he's soft, but you gotta fucking he is squirrely. Foxy even. Many have said it. Many. I'm just repeating their words. Captain Falcon! Okay. He punched good. He punched good. He punched so good. If you're staying still. Uh-huh. He he so so Captain Falcon for me is a glass cannon. Oh. He he is he is a known, he is a he is but here here's so so he's a glass cannon. Falcon punch, bunch of fucking damage. Everyone loves it. Everyone loves it. Crowd knows why you grab, explode away from you. We love it. Everything else is sort of just martial arts. Just hit the body.

Matt 1:07:09

Is that the that's the you're talking about the falcon dive where he dives down, grabs you, and like oh, and then there is the falcon dive. No, his upbeam. You're talking about the raptor boost.

Eric 1:07:17

Yes, where he if he it's his recovery move, but if he hits you with it, you link up and he explodes away from you.

Matt 1:07:24

Yes, yes, yes.

Eric 1:07:25

He is he has killed. He's a bounty hunter in the lore of the game. He is he is a race car driver who's gonna be a good one. I was gonna say isn't just a race car driver. Uh and uh he's a he's a racer in the F10 series. Or sorry, in the uh not the F1, in the F0 series. Uh play on words for the F1. But he's a race car driver, but in his lore, he's a bounty hunter, and his title captain implies that he has served in the military, in which the for quite some time. For quite some time. So he's a career military man. He's seen death. He's he's taken life, he is killed. He's seen death and he welcomes it. I would say uh, short of one other person on this list who we'll be getting to shortly, he is probably the most experienced killer. Yes. He that it he's the most experienced killer, he can dish out some hard damage, but he is just straight up a human. He's he's very strong, though. He's a he's a whole lot of man. Whole lot of man. He is peak human. He is he is like peak fucking vanilla human. He's like the Captain America of this. Uh no, sorry. Captain America's getting been. Yeah, don't you do that to stuff? No, no, no, no. He's just peak human. He's just he's just top-tier falcon.

Matt 1:08:41

But uh I yeah, but amongst these folks. Uh because I agree, the Falcon Punch is fantastic, but every the conditions have to be right. The conditions have to be flawless. You can get it around, you can get around it easily.

Eric 1:08:57

He if he misses, he's dead.

unknown 1:08:59

Yeah.

Matt 1:09:00

And yeah, you miss, he's dead. Exactly. Yes. If he misses with it, he could do himself it.

Eric 1:09:05

He can't miss any of his moves. He has to like he has to like perfect this because otherwise he's catching a lightning bolt to the face, he's getting stabbed with a sword, beaten by a gorilla. Like there's really no room for error for our boy.

Matt 1:09:21

You know, I uh accepting the fact that he is a killer and he he has the drive. I think he's only a seven for me.

Eric 1:09:30

Yeah, because I think he's just like he's base human. Like, like everyone else has so much other shit going for them, but he's just a normal fucking person. But he you'll he could kill a Mario Brother or two. So I I would put that at a set. If Luigi's a six, Captain Falcon is a seven. I'm I'm agreed with I'm agreed here.

Matt 1:09:49

I'm I am glad to hear it.

Eric 1:09:51

Samus Samus Aran. Galactic bounty hunter. Yes. Wearing mythical armor given to her by the Chozo. With a gun arm. With a gun arm. She has a fucking laser cannon strapped to her arm. She has a laser grappling hook. She can form bombs. Morph bombs, yes. She, and this is the only other person I would say who has had more she has intergalactic bounty hunting experience. She has fought entire planets of foes from space pirates to the Metroid to Ridley, who's a fucking pterodactyl. Uh, she's seen combat. She will have no problem killing somebody. Uh, she's her entire she came here, she's the only one straight up equipped for murder. Like you know what I mean? Like Link's equipped to fight monsters. Truly full body armor. She's like, I'm taking you dead or alive, and this time it's just you've made it easier, it's dead. True. Samus. I I'm struggling to think of a weakness here. She has missiles. She had like it's it's really hard for me.

Matt 1:11:14

Apparently, her her up attack, up B attack is technically called screw attack.

Eric 1:11:20

Yes, screw attacks when she spins very she's she so she's nimbly, she can be nimbly bimbly. I mean like she she is in many ways the total package. She's the total fucking package. Matt, I think she can take high damage. She can take high damage. She's heavy. She's the armor makes her heavy. Like, she's I think she's a 10, Matt. Matt, I think we have our first 10.

Matt 1:11:47

I think you might be right, Eric. I had to sit here.

Eric 1:11:50

I'm sitting here trying to think of like I had to think in the armor.

Matt 1:11:54

I that's what I was doing. I was like, well, where are the drawbacks? There are really no drawbacks. And then when she takes off that helmet, she's still a 10. Fucking 10. Absolute smoke show. Absolute smoke show. And that in itself is a move.

Eric 1:12:10

Absolute smoke show. That's a move.

Matt 1:12:11

That's a move right there. You take off that helmet, and you got Donkey Kong making his tongue hit the floor and roll out like a red carpet.

Eric 1:12:19

Yeah.

Matt 1:12:19

Wily coyote over here. I like it. I like it. I say yes, Samus. We give her a 10. Yes, Samus. And now, unfortunately, we have to discuss. Ness!

Eric 1:12:31

What do you mean, unfortunately? Tell me immediately what you mean by unfortunate.

Matt 1:12:37

Okay, you're right. It's not unfortunate. We all like talking about how easy it is to kill Ness. So let's uh let's talk about this little pip squeak. Or I'm sorry, PK squeak.

Eric 1:12:47

Ness is lit okay. So let me just rattle off some. So you know Ness has fought universe endings.

Matt 1:12:56

I'm let's talk about Ness, the character everyone had to look up when they got Super Smash Brothers. Uh he dude, kid has literally tried couldn't tell you his game to this day. To this day, I couldn't tell you where he's found in Japan.

Eric 1:13:11

It's called Mother. My point. Exactly. This kid's mental game off the charts, both in terms of his telepathic, telekinetic powers, and in terms of the plot. One day, look, do me a favor, one day, look up the plot of the earthbound games. This kid has been through some of the most traumatic shit imaginable and still came out a kid on the other side. He's a fucking psycho. He's he's built different, and he has mental powers. He can summon fire with his mind.

Matt 1:13:45

He has PK flash, he has psychic PK thunder, he can launch himself into a missile, yeah. PSI magic magnet to absorb energy, and somehow all those moves still suck. Explain it to me, Eric.

Eric 1:14:05

How can he be so good when so bad? He's the only one who could who can absolutely negate Shomas's. You can fling him away. Like if you can like so much stale confetti. No, don't get me wrong. The second you get your hands on him, he's dead. He's a little kid. Yeah. But you gotta get through fire, you gotta get through telecon telepathic, like telegraph. He's gonna attack you with his mind. He's gonna hit you with his mind raise. He's gonna zap you with his brain zaps. He's gonna get you. He's gonna fucking kill you. He's gonna come into your house tonight, Matt, and he's gonna kill you. He could do that.

Matt 1:14:41

He's vulnerable to high hypnosis and and paralysis, as if anyone else isn't. Uh he is only 13. Uh he's a child soldier. Yeah, he very, very weak, it sounds like.

Eric 1:14:56

Everyone else will hesitate to kill a 13-year-old.

Matt 1:14:59

No, they won't. No, they will not. Only those that we have said would hesitate to kill. This is a fight to the battle.

Eric 1:15:06

Mario would hesitate to kill a 13-year-old. He would hesitate to hesitate to kill a 13-year-old. Pikachu wouldn't hesitate to kill 13-year-old.

Matt 1:15:13

Link would kill him. Link would kill him. Link would kill him.

Eric 1:15:16

Samus would kill him. Samus would kill him. Captain Falcon would kill him. Captain Falcon. Kirby would kill him. Kirby would kill Kirby would kill everyone. Fox might not do it. Jigglypuff? Fox is on it. She's dreamt of it. Fantasized about it. So, Matt, so so so all that to say though, he's got really good offensive chops, in my opinion. He's got a lot of mind power.

Matt 1:15:37

If he does, I do think he falls into the to put my own biases aside for a second. I do think he falls into the if you know how to use Ness, he can be quite effective.

Eric 1:15:47

And Ness knows how to use Ness.

Matt 1:15:49

Yes.

Eric 1:15:50

Ness is at the wheel.

Matt 1:15:51

That's true, yes. We we are talking about them in their natural states.

Eric 1:15:54

This isn't your this isn't your little your this isn't your fucking little cousin trying to steer a psychic. This is this is he's he's bringing everything to bear.

Matt 1:16:03

It's true.

Eric 1:16:04

It's true. I would put Ness at a nine.

Matt 1:16:10

Eric.

Eric 1:16:10

But I'm willing to hear arguments.

Matt 1:16:12

I've been arguing it this whole time. I mean, for me, Ness is maybe a seven. Maybe a seven? Maybe a seven if I'm being generous.

Eric 1:16:23

You're so we're so we're putting.

Matt 1:16:26

He's small. Uh a canonically can't run, I'm finding out on the earthbound wiki right now. Uh, which for a baseball obsessed kid is a pretty he wields the home run bat bad bad thing.

Eric 1:16:40

Matt, can I hit you with this? We've got a big thing. We chose the home run bat at random and pretend we didn't. He has the fucking bat. He has a baseball bat. That's gotta count for something. It counts. Look, I like the kid.

Matt 1:16:54

I like his style. I like his vibe. I like what he's about. Do you?

Eric 1:16:59

Because you've spent the past five minutes talking shit.

Matt 1:17:02

You take that home run bat up against the master sword, as I've always referred to it as. Yeah. Yes. We know which one wins, Eric. Oh, I knew. You take it up against DK's fists. I'm not saying he's a nine. Kirby is Kirby is a rock. Here comes Ness. What do you what's happening here? We have a kid flailing a bat. A wiffle ball bat, perhaps. Could you meet me at an eight?

Eric 1:17:34

Oh. Because I can't I can't stand the fact that he wouldn't. I need him to at least be an even match for Jigglypuff. Come on.

Matt 1:17:43

Alright. Alright. I'll get I'll give him an eight. I give him an eight. But I maintain that he sucks. I maintain that he sucks, Eric. I'm sorry about it. I'm sorry about it. I know he's an obscure Japanese reference, and I know how you love those. I fucking do.

Eric 1:18:02

I know how you love those. I really, really fucking do. Sorry. Everything's Daijobu. Everything's Daiobu. Not gonna be a big baka about it. No. Are you? Are you not? Get a load of this guy, Jen. Um, so so Matt, the dust is fucking settled. There's visor all over the walls, the battle is ended. Let's see. Let's go. Let's look at this pile of corpses. Let's go to this pile of corpses. First corpse. On the bottom. Yoshi.

Matt 1:18:31

Yoshi with a two. Yoshi first to fucking die. First first to die, first to be trampled upon.

Eric 1:18:37

In fact, I think I feel like the rest of them, like they draw straws to see who gets to do that mercy killing. Mario!

Matt 1:18:42

Mario next. Mario next. Shortly followed by his brother Luigi. Luigi!

Eric 1:18:48

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then Luigi is then punched to death by Captain Falcon. Who is then subsequently electrocuted to death by Pikachu? Who is put to sleep eternally by Jigglypop. Who simultaneously? Yes. Exactly. Simultaneously. You can't even describe him. Who is swallowed into hell by Kirby? Yeah. And then we have a simultaneous laser bullet through the head while monkey fist punch. Donkey Fox. Donkey Fox. Donkey Fox. Donkey Fox. And then that leaves two left. It's Link and Samus. And Link is fucking put down. The laser beats the sword.

Matt 1:19:45

Yeah, I think at the end, Master Sword broken in half. Samus's uh helmet shattered to pieces. Yeah. And it's it's uh everyone's beaten and bloody and at 300% damage, and Link pulls up the hook shot, or perhaps the boomerang from a laying down position. Samus just gets the last little bit of the charge out, and there goes Link. The light leaves. Send him back to Hyrule.

Eric 1:20:12

And the clock stops for the hero of time. Ooh, chills, chills, Matt. Samus. Samus Iran. Samus Aran. Samus Aran. Samus Iran. Samus Iran. Well, Samus Iran. Samus Aran. The Samus of Hormuz. The Strait of Samus. Strait of Samus.

Matt 1:20:41

Oh, God. I'm sure someone finds that offensive. Oh, deeply so. Um sorry about that.

Eric 1:20:48

So, so there we are, kids, in the OG Super Smash cast, in terms of pure fight to the death. It's Samus, baby. It is.

Matt 1:20:57

I feel good about this selection. I feel good about what we've done here. And uh I feel uh good about saying that'll about do it. That'll about do it. For this episode of You Didn't Ask for This. My name is Oh, wait a minute. I'm skipping right over the business. Matthew Shea. Yes. Failure. Uh Eric. Yeah. People, if they want to join the Discord, where do they go for that?

Eric 1:21:24

Oh, if you want to join the Discord, just go on to patreon.com slash you didn't ask for this. Uh for one dollar a month, you get access to the Discord, you get access to the Immaculate Vibes, conversations, dank ass memes, and the Orgy dome all wrapped into the Discord. For $4 a month, you get access to the Discord, access to monthly bonus content in the form of oops all tangents.

Matt 1:21:48

And this month, I want to point out we had uh an oops all tangent. We are making up for lost time, lost ground during my absence earlier this summer. We had oops all tangents for August came out last weekend. We have this episode this weekend. Next or this week, next week, we're gonna have another oops all tangents. Then it's gonna be episode 147. And guess what? It's already time for September's oat, and then another episode. That's we're going on nearly two months straight of your daft content week after week after week, baby, but only if you support us. On the Patreon.

Eric 1:22:28

And then if you support us. And Matt, after all of that, after all of that, Matt, the little cherry on top of ooh, is that a maraschino? Hello. You get 20% off of all you daft merchandise in the merch store.

Matt 1:22:41

Which you'll find at unaskorthis.com. So head over there, our shiny new website, looking good, feeling great. New merch. New merch. Uh go get some, please. Actually, please go get please go get some. Please, please. Uh so there's that. We need your questions, send them to us on that website or at udinaskforthis at gmail.com. That's all spelled out. Or right on that Discord, baby. And the social medias, it's you didn't ask pod. Letter you didn't ask pod. And Eric, the thought line, they can call it. What's the number?

Eric 1:23:16

It's been so long since I've had responsibility. I was so relieved when you came back.

Matt 1:23:26

Eric, I'm gonna say to you now what I said to you last night when you left after maybe 40 minutes into the Odyssey to go pee. I'm going to tell my son you were weak.

Eric 1:23:36

But he chose me. He smiled at me.

Matt 1:23:39

He did smile when you held me. I'm a spleen. I'm uncle opposed. He does not do that for everybody. He does. I will admit.

Eric 1:23:47

So Matt, tell him the goddamn number.

Matt 1:23:50

410-92953-29. Call it. No, actually, please call it. No one's called it in a while. I'm gonna be honest with you. We'll put whatever you put on there. Yeah. Unless it's hate speech.

Eric 1:23:59

Uh give me like two minutes and I'm done. Somebody's just walking into this room now? It's my beloved. She has that right. No, she doesn't. She does. No, she doesn't. That's my Penelope, you son of a bitch. Yeah, well, I'm the suitors at the gate. I apologize. I'm not.

Matt 1:24:15

I'm not.

Eric 1:24:16

I'm not.

Matt 1:24:18

All right. So from all of us here, you didn't ask for this.

Eric 1:24:22

My name's Eric Poach. And listen, you didn't ask. But I'm really glad Kirby was so cool about letting us have this pretend fight where like we're just pretending that he's not a literal fucking god. Kirby!

Matt 1:24:36

Now, they're just all lucky that this we kept it to the first uh grouping because if we introduced some of the other people, if we introduced the agent of chaos, that is that your Wario!

Eric 1:24:51

No, that's Waluigi! Oh, Waluigi. Oh, yeah, Waluigi did eventually come on here.

Matt 1:24:57

No, Waluigi is always my Mario character.

Eric 1:25:00

Oh my goodness Mario. Oh, yeah. Got to be. Got to be. Also, we would never we we could lower ourselves to cosplaying Mario and Luigi, but we're such a Wario and Waluigi.

Matt 1:25:12

No, if we were to do a if we were to do a dual costume, we would be Wario and Waluigi.

Eric 1:25:17

Yeah.

Matt 1:25:18

I would be upset that you would be Waluigi, but you must be Waluigi.

Eric 1:25:24

Yes. Yes. I am, as I have always been, Waluigi. And good night.